47 | Creating Structure Out of Chaos with Ariana Refsdal
Ariana creates structure out of chaos. Her passion is taking a business that is taking on water, and the CEO is struggling to stay on top of everything and turning it into a calm, well-oiled machine. Ariana’s analytical, list-oriented brain beautifully complements her client's visionary and creative endeavors.
Ariana offers services ranging from strategy consultations, short-term projects to elevate a specific aspect of the business or ongoing online business manager support.
Listen and learn about how Ariana helps business owners go from point A to point B. Your business is more than a to-do list, but one that includes desires and vision that becomes the fuel for overall growth.
Don’t forget to book your coffee chat and continue the conversation!
Episode Transcript
Dani: Welcome to the Discovery Call Podcast. Could you share a little bit who you are and what
Ariana: you do? Yeah, so I'm Ariana. I am an certified online business manager and business strategist. I typically work with visionary clients who have big dreams and big plans for where they want their business to go, but they don't necessarily have the strategy part of, uh, mapping out how to get from.
Ariana: Conception to final product, um, out into the world. So a lot of my clients tend to be like life coaches or energy workers or healers, people that are making big changes in the world and need a little bit of strategic support to be able to get to that next level in their business.
Dani: The strategic support, is that kind of coming into more of like the backend work?
Dani: Like what would you say is that like that first thing that you tackle when it's like, okay, here I am, let's get some strategy behind that?
Ariana: Yeah, absolutely. The biggest [00:01:00] thing that I see from clients is they have this big, again, big vision, but nothing, the foundation is not set up. So I come in and I say, Hey, what can we organize, optimize, and automate within this back office operations so that your business runs better?
Ariana: It runs a little faster. It runs without so much human interaction so that you can focus on the growth of the business versus the maintenance of the business and just managing the day-to-day. Okay. That's
Dani: really cool. I, I compared a lot to what I do as a social media manager. One of the things I always say is that I take care of all the pieces so that you can be social and social, you can show up and do your thing.
Dani: And so that kinda Absolutely, like that's what you do. You just kind of, okay, let's clear this all out so you can just do what you're really
Ariana: good at. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Dani: What is a common thing that you have to really start first with though? Like what is just like, if we can get this one figured out, so many other things get sorted out.
Ariana: That's a really great [00:02:00] question. A lot of the stuff is, I don't know where that thing is, or everything lives in my brain like, oh, I, I can't have a sick day. I can't have a day where I need to sleep in in the morning because nothing will get done if I am not doing it. So it's like, Hey, let's get all the things outta your brain onto paper.
Ariana: Like my motto is, everyone should be replaceable. Even the, the ceo, and especially when you're going from being a solopreneur to being someone that wants to hire a team at some point, like wants to like grow their, you know, like the people that are helping support them. Nothing will get done if it's all in your brain.
Ariana: So taking the things out of the brain, getting them documented, getting them processes, kind of like mapped out and input into project management systems or just even in Google Docs, something to say. Hey, how does this thing get done? And then from there we can go through and optimize it. So I can go like, Hey, have you ever thought about this?
Ariana: Like, this piece could be an automated email, [00:03:00] versus you have to sit there and think about what you wanna say or you know, whatever the, the case may be. But yeah, it's really like, how can we make the c e O replaceable and not a bottleneck so that they can hire people and. Can just stay in their zone. A genius, right, right.
Ariana: Yeah.
Dani: Make like the parts
Ariana: that are
Dani: outsourceable. Or you could, something could be automated, no longer taking up the space in their brain. So, yeah. Oh, it's gotta be good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find that oftentimes it is. I don't know where it is. I don't know where that lives. I know I made it, but I just don't know where it lives.
Dani: So that's a common one that I hear since it's discovery called podcast. I'd like to talk about kind of like how you have grown as a business owner to learning that discoverability part. Because like that lot of service providers, that's like a huge piece and with any business you need to be discoverable in some form.
Dani: So like what has been your journey in that? My journey
Ariana: has been like twofold. So the first [00:04:00] part is I was so protective over this new entity that I was creating that I wouldn't talk about it, which like as someone who is marketing to get clients, like that's not I. A great way to market just to like, like no one knows about it.
Ariana: Like no one understands like what I do. My family and friends for like such a long time are like, oh, so you do this thing? I'm like, no, where'd you get that? And they're like, I mean, that's what I've gathered from the conversations. So I was like, I actually probably should like talk about it and like I.
Ariana: What I do and how I serve people. And then the other part, when I actually got onto discovery calls, it was, I was so in my, like I have to prove something, like I have like a chip on my shoulder. Like I, you know, I need to get in there and be like this performative version of myself, of like, this is what I can do.
Ariana: And like dance monkey dance, instead of being who I actually was. And like being able to like come in with like this, Hey, like this is what I do. If my energy resonates with you, perfect. If not, no problem. So once I could really start to harness the hey, like, I'm good, I'm solid. Like if [00:05:00] this is my ideal client, they're gonna like my energy.
Ariana: Things started happening in a better way for me then when I was just like, oh my God, who do they want me to be? How can I like tell them like, oh, I'm, I'm this amazing service provider and I can really help you. There was like a lot of lack of trust in myself.
Dani: Yeah, that is so important. And I think it's like we have to be consistent with who they're gonna work with after the discovery call, right?
Dani: Mm-hmm. Because like if you, if you become this inflated version of yourself or you kind of peacock your ability, so to speak, and that's kind of you're setting expectation for the rest of that entire work. Experience and yeah, you don't wanna do the bait and switch feeling. I think there, that is such a good transition to make too, that when you go into the discovery calls, that it's not so much that you get the client to just hire you, so you can just get the client, but it's to find the client that's gonna work best working with you.
Dani: Yes. And then if they, if they don't work with you, it, it just was for a very good reason and you can [00:06:00] have room for the next person. So that shift is huge.
Ariana: Yeah. Cause it, it's that scarcity mindset of like, oh, I have to like, make this business successful. So I'm gonna say yes to everybody and I'm gonna be what everyone needs, needs me, me to be, versus finding the people, like you said, that are actually aligned and actually gonna be the best fit for.
Ariana: Who, how I work and who I am and you know, the energy I wanna bring into my business. So yeah, it's making that like conscious switch to be like, Hey, my people are out there. I just need to find them. And
Dani: I have the same problems sometimes too. Like most people in my, the real world, so to speak. Like, I think my online people are real people too, but um, they try to describe or understand what I do.
Dani: And the common line I get is, I bet you that became more of a thing during covid. I was like, no, actually a lot of what I'm doing existed before then. But Covid did help in some ways of like, you know, working from home, but it's just interesting. So what are some of the myths that you kind of feel like is in your industry or line of work?
Dani: [00:07:00] Like what would be your soapbox thing
Ariana: a little bit right now? That you have to do all the things by yourself? So I, I know that kind of plays into what I said earlier, but you can do everything and yeah, everyone is fully capable of doing it all. But why do you have to, like, you don't have to do it all.
Ariana: And I've seen so many people when I get into conversations with potential clients who are like, oh, I have been doing this all on my own because like I, you know, was told You can do all these things and here's the the way to do all the things. And I don't think there's a one size fits all. I think everyone needs to do things a little differently and having that flexibility to switch it up or to say like, oh yeah, that's actually not working for me.
Ariana: And that's such a good
Dani: reminder. You don't have to do it all. It's kinda like the, the term solopreneur of eventually, um, depending on your business goals, you're gonna grow out of that title and you want to, you wanna take on people to help and cast that
Ariana: vision. So Yeah. And, and adding to the team in a really [00:08:00] intentional way.
Ariana: So it's, you're not bringing on people just to like, oh my God, I need someone to help me. But it's. Who's gonna match my vision? Who's gonna take the baby that I've created and help me nurture it to get to that next level? I've, again, I've heard so many stories of people saying like, oh yeah, I hired this person, I hired that person, and they did not respect what I had built and my clients and you know, so having these discovery calls is really important to really get a feel for, I.
Ariana: Who is gonna come into the business? And again, do they match my energy? Do they, are they aligned with my mission and my values? Because if not, then yeah, you're, you're gonna gift this, you know, part of your business to somebody, and then they're gonna destroy that, or, you know, it's just, it's important to make sure that you really vet out the people that you wanna bring into the business, because you don't wanna have a bad experience where you stop trusting people.
Dani: Right. It is so true. And you know, you, you definitely learn a lot when you hire that person. It doesn't work out I think every time, like, but just [00:09:00] you also learning and realizing quicker it's not working out because some people just kind of hang out with a independent contractor for a long time and it's just not working.
Dani: Now, do you, hi. Do you help with that, um, onboarding process? Is that something that you guide your clients
Ariana: through? Yeah. So it all depends on where they're at. When I first like connect with them, I've been working to make my business very accessible to a wide range of people, no matter where they are financially in their business.
Ariana: So something that I've recently been doing is strategy calls. So one of 'em is like a team strategy call. One of 'em is just a general strategy, and with the team strategy, I'm also starting to implement like, Hey, okay we are, we're gonna figure out who you need in the business and then. I'm gonna help you hire them.
Ariana: I'm gonna help you pre-vet people. I'm gonna help you onboard and come up with that system and make sure that they have all the pieces that they need and help you kind of train them a little bit as you grow into a leader. I have a client right now who is struggling a little bit with that piece [00:10:00] of I wanna train someone and I want them to be the best fit for my business.
Ariana: And also, I'm so stressed about just making deadlines and getting my my stuff done that. I actually don't have full capacity to train them, so I'm, I'm kind of supporting them in that, you know, discovery journey because yeah, again, you wanna have the people that are the best fit for your business on the team.
Ariana: It is
Dani: so true, and that is something that every business owner thinks about. I could hire someone on, but I need SOPs to have them on and I need to train them, and if I do all that, I'll get behind on everything
Ariana: else. Yes. That's where, again, you start with getting all the things out of their brain before you hire.
Ariana: It's like get everything documented first, because then organizing, optimizing the process. You bring someone on and then you say like, Hey, here's the fully vetted out process and it's so much easier for them to. Come on board because they're not being like, Ooh, I don't know what the questions I need to ask.
Ariana: Are. I don't know, like where the, the things live. Like, nope, it's all documented. Just hand the packet to the new team member. [00:11:00] Um, and then they come on and, you know, it's much smoother transition.
Dani: I'm actually in this unique situation right now where I am offboarding a particular client. Um, and it's just, it's a, it's a good offboarding process, but I created this cello board, offboarding cello board.
Dani: I made like videos of everything that I do. And do you recommend videos or like PDFs? Like which one's your favorite? Or does it matter?
Ariana: I like a mixture of both. So the way I love to do my SOPs is I like write out step by step by step. I'm pretending like the person has never opened up a computer before and it's like, okay, first you like look at this and then you know, very step-by-step.
Ariana: And then recording videos and taking screenshots to like show exactly where the things are is great because typically, Oh, I've found that t people like to watch videos to see the whole process, but then if they have a a one question, it's easier for them to look back through the PDF and say like, oh yeah, you know, bullet two point A is [00:12:00] what I actually needed the information on both, all the above.
Dani: I like that you're right, because if you just wanna quickly remember something, a little step, if you have to watch a 15 minute video, that's gonna be really annoying. Right. Exactly. That's a good point. Yeah. Oh good. So you're talking about, um, which I think is unique in your particular field of having offerings for people in like, Different journeys of their business, you know, before Summit might being in the ready to hire on an o bm.
Dani: Right. So like explain that a little bit. Like where did that come from? I think that's very unique and. I think you're probably helping a lot of people get ready for you too, so like how
Ariana: does that work? I went through the certification program to be an online business manager and was so excited about that and was like, oh, like yeah, I get to work with all these different businesses, but one of my values and one of.
Ariana: One of the reasons why I chose to do what I do is because I wanted to make an impact and I wanted to help people amplify their [00:13:00] voices because the clients that I work with have so much to say and they have so much they they wanna give to the collective and to the world that I am. Wanna use my talents to help them amplify that message.
Ariana: And what I realized after I went through this process is that the people that typically work with OBMs in a retainer sense are the ones that are already well on their way. They're making the money they wanna make, and they're just trying to uplevel and get to the next step of the business. And so I was like, oh, that's not really sustainable for the types of people that I want to support and wanna work with.
Ariana: So I started to work through what pieces I felt were the most important for. Businesses when they start out with an O B M and it was like, okay, how can I package this into something that feels a little bit more sustainable? Feels a little bit more easy for people to be like, oh yeah, I have the budget. I can invest in that because it's gonna provide change pretty quickly for me.
Ariana: And I don't have to keep someone on retainer to like always manage this thing. I get to be, you know, it's taken care of or I'm trained and then we get to move on. Um, so it's been [00:14:00] really exciting for me to do
Dani: that. And then just the full disclosure, we actually sat down and one of the strategy calls. If I remember correctly.
Dani: Yes. Yeah. And um, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me from that was having someone from the outside kind of like look at the numbers a bit. I think that was one thing, like I've always looked at my numbers, but like never really had someone else who ha understands online business look at it with me and kind of just, um, yeah.
Dani: Opened my eyes to a few things and got me thinking in different ways, and that has been available. So yeah, it, we found out I have a VA that I was not using all of her hours, still working on that, but I'm gonna have her do a few things. Awesome. So,
Ariana: yeah, no, I'm so happy to hear that because I know, like you and I talked about it, Um, but there were just like some little pieces in the business that just needed to be Yeah, another perspective.
Ariana: Um, and someone once said to me, it's really hard to read the label from a bottle from the inside of the bottle. So having someone from the outside like, [00:15:00] look and be like, oh yeah, like this, this, and this and this. It's like, Oh duh. Like that. That makes sense.
Dani: That is such a good point. I always, and I know that analogy I've always said was, you can't do heart surgery on yourself.
Dani: Right? Like you your own transformation sometimes you just Absolutely. That reminds me too of like kind of this realization, cuz you brought up so many, um, good pain points ahead of my own business and got me thinking and just saying like, what is it that just kind of drives you nuts? And I was like, and kind of just like acknowledging the fact that, um, When you run your own business, you don't always, not every aspect of your business fits your strong suits perfectly.
Dani: Mm-hmm. Like there's just some things you kind of have to swallow and just keep going, but then also looking at it in a way of how can you start to outsource this part and find somebody who really loves this part? And I just, I think that's such a good thing to think about.
Ariana: Yeah. My goal is to have. My team and my, and the, my clients work in their zone of genius like 70% of the time.
Ariana: And yeah, there's always gonna be things that are like, not [00:16:00] my favorite thing, but okay, we have to just do this to move the business forward. But whenever possible, like you just said, like outsourcing, hiring someone on because. Even like in personal life, I was talking with a friend the other day and I was like, oh yeah, like I don't like to do that.
Ariana: And she's like, oh my God, I love to do that. And I was like being able to trade with people and barter with people or just have someone else come in and be like, Hey, I love doing this thing. I'm gonna do this thing for you. Makes everyone have a. A better experience because they get to focus on the things they actually like to do, which makes everything better.
Ariana: And do
Dani: you have any special like, um, softwares that you specialize in that, that you're just like, I'm really good at this, or you, you find you're pretty adaptable? Like, I can go in figure almost anything you're using out.
Ariana: I. Yeah, I'm pretty adaptable. I feel like processes and systems are processes and systems and click up has a little bit of a different interface than Asana does.
Ariana: They're all figureoutable. Um, and that's always been my mentality that like, I know how, like what you need me to. Get done in the system, and it's just a matter of like, what are the actual buttons I need [00:17:00] to click to like, make this work. You know, they want
Dani: you to use their system, so there is a way to figure it out.
Dani: You just, you take the
Ariana: time, and that's something that I love to do. Like I love learning about new tech and new systems and stuff, so when people are like, oh, have you worked with this? I'm like, no, but I'm, I'm not worried about it. You want something that tells you when your, your items are due. Perfect.
Ariana: I'll figure out how to work this and then I'll give you an s o p that tells you how to do it so that you don't have to do the. Like work of figuring it out. I
Dani: guess before kind of move into some of the closing thoughts, can you give kind of like a, a rundown of if someone's interested in connecting with you and talking about working with you, what are some of those offerings that you
Ariana: have?
Ariana: So, like I said before, I have the two strategy calls, which are. You know, pretty low time investment for people. They're in our each, um, and we kind of go through whatever the, the topic, the pain points are. I also have a, like a v i P experience where we do an ops review. Um, so we kind of go through like people plans, processes, like what, what is going on [00:18:00] in the business, and then how can we organize, optimize, automate.
Ariana: That stuff. And then they get a plan of what I see are the biggest pain points and the biggest problems that are blocking growth or blocking revenue. And then I also have a 12 week tuneup that's a little bit slower paced because it's over 12 weeks. But I go in and I kind of like, as I'm looking at all the things, I'm actually fixing the things or I'm documenting how processes could go.
Ariana: And at the end of the 12 weeks, I kind of hand over a new, like better optimized system for people. And I'm also. I've been customizing plans for people that are just like, Hey, I have all these things, like can you help me with any of these pieces? That's been a really fun thing for me to do, is just make customized proposals for people because everyone's business is a little bit different and no one is a one size fits all.
Ariana: So I've tried to be as general as I can to like give people an idea, but my love getting on coffee chats with people and then kind of seeing like, what is it that I can help you with? And if I don't know, Or if I'm, if it's not my zone of genius, I have a network that I'm building [00:19:00] cuz I do all these other networking coffee chats that I can refer people out.
Ariana: Mm-hmm. I really take the motto from Miracle on 34th Street, where the Santa's like, if Kohl's doesn't have it, we're gonna find the place that does. Because that's just like I, when I heard that, I was like, oh my God, I love that. Like, I want to be able to connect people in my network. So I also love doing
Dani: that.
Dani: I, I love it when we don't treat ourselves as a dead end if it's not a good fit. This is just like, I'll send you other places, like continue the rapid trails to finding your person. Exactly. All right. So right now, as of today, what is inspiring?
Ariana: Honestly, the springtime weather is like such an inspiration.
Ariana: I find every year I forget that I have like a little bit of like seasonal depression because I'm like, it's cold. We all hibernate, like we're all kind of like inside all, all the time. And then the first nice day I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm coming back to life again. So it's like all these, you know, activities I wanna do outside the house.
Ariana: Um, I'm looking into doing like a mixology class [00:20:00] and a flowers class, like how to, like, arrange flowers and like all this, like, life is bubbling up because the sun is out and it's beautiful outside. So it's been very inspirational to, to be creative and to create some new offers and to just be present in the moment and be outside of nature.
Ariana: Yeah.
Dani: You know, I got my thinking too that, you know what, if we really actually embrace, like these four seasons, like for those of us who live in a place of four seasons, I know they're in California, they're every day sunny, sometimes in some places. But, um, for these, I don't know, kind of inserting like certain goals and intentions for the season.
Dani: Like if we know, like if, you know, in spring you're very motivated to be like creative and create new things to kinda like, well, I'll, I'll push that into spring and then if, you know, like in, in wintertime it's more hunker down and I don't know, it's such an interesting way of, of looking at it, but I think it's, so I.
Dani: It's so true. Spring brings such new energy to things, so, yeah. [00:21:00] Yeah.
Ariana: No, that is such a good point. And I've gotten that feedback from other people, and it's like trying to unwind myself from the patriarchy and from the, there's a certain way to do things and you have to just hustle it, push and just do all the things, because there is such a freedom when you can be like, Hey, it's wintertime right now.
Ariana: I'm gonna maintain what I'm doing, but I don't need to be creative. I don't need to be pounding the pavement and doing all these things. I get to wait till spring to do that. Um, I, it is, it's such a beautiful way to think. We just have to like get our minds to like wrap around that concept and be like, it's okay.
Ariana: It's okay.
Dani: You can wait a couple months. It's fine. I know it. I give some freedom. I mean, like, you know, if the nature needs a season of being dormant and a season of harvest and a season of growth and like, I don't know, give us some freedom to do that too. Whenever I read these productivity books, sometimes it'll be like everyone has to, you know, Function at optimal level at all times.
Dani: And they always, I always get grumpy about it. I'm like, A dude wrote this. I know some guy, some guy in [00:22:00] corporate found out that if I did this trick, everyone was more productive. And now we're all burning out and crying in the
Ariana: corners. Yes, yes. Absolutely. And I saw something that was like men's, men's, um, Or people that are male, like have every day, like their energy and their system is the same, and people that are female have a different energy and, um, availability every day.
Ariana: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know the exact signs of it, but it is, it's so interesting to, it is try to like, how do I, how do I be a female operating person in this world where it's. Built for not
Dani: me. Right, right, right. And still be productive just in his season. Right. I don't know. So there you go. You guys, we just like made her inspiration hopefully inspirational to all of you.
Dani: And if you're a dude listening to this rock on, we, we, we applaud you. Absolutely. Um, I, I, my last child I had in November, my, my daughter and I loved that because in the winter I [00:23:00] could just hunker down. Mm. And just. Be a new mom and nurse, and it was just so nice because when I had my babies in the summer, I just felt like I was missing out on all this stuff, but it was snow and no one's to go out on the outside.
Dani: It's just nice. So yeah, embrace the winter in the spring and the summer, so
Ariana: yeah, embrace all the things. Yeah.
Dani: Yeah, yeah. Awesome. All right, so where can people find you? Where do you hang out online? How it'll be in the show notes too. Yeah. I
Ariana: mostly have, you know, my website done up. I am not really a social media marketer, so I'm not super active on any social platforms, but my website is where you can kind of see who I am and book, you know, discovery call or coffee chat with me, and yeah, we can connect and kind of see if it's an aligned partnership.
Dani: Yes. I, I love that As a social media manager, I know that sounds counterintuitive, but um, seeing people able to run their business. Without relying on social media and not feeling the pressure to get on there, if that just doesn't sync up [00:24:00] with them and this is one way to do it. Right. Get on podcast.
Dani: Absolutely. Yeah. Just try new things. Exactly. Yeah. Also, thank you so much and just a reminder to everybody that, um, Ariana is expecting coffee chat discovery call. So if you wanna continue this conversation in any way, coffee, check into her referral world, or obviously talk about her services, this is an open invitation, so, Take her up on
Ariana: that.
Ariana: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Danny. I had so much fun on here. Thank you.
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